Saniora: The Choice between Justice and Stability is Unethical

A couple of hours and the party and the Party will both be over. Finally, Lebanon's Spring has become a reality.

A couple of hours and the party and the Party will both be over. Finally, Lebanon's evill has become a reality.

Looks who is talking about ethics??? Using STL for political achievements is ethical? using public funds to help banks make money is ethical? Offshore system and structures is ethical? I don't know if Siniora used this term or if Naharnet is having a bad translation but Siniora is a person that should not be talking about ethics!!

I admire all the effort you are putting Mabboud in developping an academic resoning worth to be part of a BA paper course 201. You either are a student in politics and you should pursue your efforts till the finals, or else be art of an Al Jazeera debate on the general topic of Internationam tribunals. However for the ordinary citizen I am, justice will be better served by the STL and will ultmately overpower those who think they can escape from it. And it wont take 300 yrs. Ask Mladic.STL is better than the sentences released within 3 minutes condemning the ennemies of the Republic, and the ruling/ caring governing parties we know. Enough oh the Abou adass stories.this time round the judges will not onmy outsmart the vilains, but also outlive them.

mabboud: We are proud that there are still some politicians looking for justice, and who still believe in democracy. It is really sad to see people fooled by propaganda and ignorance in Lebanon while all arab countries are waking up seeking democarcy and justice. They are asking for justice and your reply is they want this for political reasons... They are asking justice and your reply is your govermnent was corrupted... They are asking for justice and your response is you are traitors...

They are asking for justice and you are telling them that they have to choose between justice and war! Of course, in your books this is highly ethical...

Me, it seems that you should go back to school and learn how to read, it will probably help you better understand what people say and don't say... I just said that it's funny to have Siniora talk about Ethics that's it. Hezbollah might be criminal, terrorist or whatever you want, it's was not the subject, it doesn't make Siniora ethic and less of a liar, that's it, it's my opinion and if you think that sharing with Siniora hatred or common goals makes him a better person you're wrong, he is what he is. And since you are mentioning it, when in 2006 Lebanon was bombed he should not have accepted to receive and certainly to kiss in public the person pushing for more bombing... for a prime minister of the bombed country I call it unacceptable no matter what politic opinions are

Truth, thanks for your comment but I am not in politics, I am a scientific who reads a lot and like the "logo" and hate lies, manipulations and inequalities. May I however try one more time to ask you to give more time to your reading, ICTYIS NOT about the truth and justice, Mladic is not the monster that people describe, Serbia didn't do ethnic cleansing it was Islamic militias sponsored by US and Germans that did most of the ethnic cleansing. In Sebrenica mostly only men aged more than 15 were discovered & corpses were no more than 2k not 8K. Sebrenica was a basis for operations of brigades that killed and deported more than 200,000 Jews and Serbs. What the US did in Fallujah Iraq is much much much worse, it includes thousands of women and kids, I suggest u read about it a little bit. In fact, in Yugo, the other camp killed much more, did an effective ethnic cleansing and Organ trafficking for Israel. So please, strop taking the lies of the ICTY as an example, it's worse than the STL

Truth, concerning the balance of power, please don't be naive, Hezbollah or even Syria who is now killing dozens every week won't be stopped by the STL, STL will only help to try to weaken them and their image or to prepare and wage new wars. By the way, Mladic and Milosevic were judged after a war that did cost a lot to Yugoslavia, Yugoslavia was split into pieces, massacrs and ethnic cleansing occurred and many people died and today Balkans are mafia, drugs, prostitution (women trafficking) and much worse than what you could think of. By the way, the ICYT was setup before the war on Yugoslavia just to allow for such war and NATO killed hundreds in bombing convoys to increase tensions and then just said sorry... what kind of Justice is that.TRUTH is being manipulated (and so do you T..:)) I urge you to read more to understand the danger of the STL. Justice is for ordinary citizen your're making it elitist & for the power, not me; I am just trying to help you see the Truth. Take care

One question for me, where were all those proud politicians and their justice when Syria was in Lebanon (except Geagea who was jailed), where is the justice for people who lost almost everything to Solidaire? where were those politicians when people jailed in Syria and army officers were executed by the Syrian army? ALL politicians are liars and manipulate people like you to achieve their personal agenda.t I am not proud of the politicians we have neither of the political system we have and can only hope (though I think that Mikati is not bettepabler) that the new government will prove capable of making life a little easier for the Cha3eb who cares more about sending his children to school, bring food on the table and pay his bills... this is the only Truth that I know about, all the rest are manipulations and power game and who over-powers who... I am for giving Mikati a chance, as slim as it could be...

mabboud, sorry if your were offended by my comment. Our poor country has become so mediocre that people don't debate ideas and values anymore they attack the people behind these ideas.This is quite despicable in my opinion, particularly when the attacks are vague and weak. You are claiming that the guy used public funds to help banks? do you have evidence, can you write some sort of academic paper on the topic or maybe just a serious article (i'm sure many people would love to read it and comment on it).

Mowaten: I am still waiting for your response on the tribunal's RPE (the comment where you claimed that with the STL an accused can be convicted without being shown the evidence)

Here is the link:
http://www.naharnet.com/stories/en/9742-stl-defense-chief-tells-fugitives-to-get-lawyer

thank you mr. saniora for a well said speech. for most, it is crystal clear and has a lot of common sense, but for those in the darkness (either because they are burried even they don't know where, or because they are dumb!) it makes no sense at all.

but the silent majority is listening, and will soon judge

answer for me: We have a huge debt at very high interest rates and we have continued to subscribe new ones at high rates in the Siniora gov few years ago.. who benefits from such interest rates, who is getting people money to banks.... are you sleeping, this is happening everywhere in the world and in Lebanon more than any where else, no need for me to write an academic paper, unless you have an anemic intelligence which is not the case (your post is not genuine enough and is ironical enough to infer that u r clever enough). So, you can surf the web and learn about public debt mechanism... I didn't say that Siniora is the only person in the world to do that but that bankers in general and prime ministers who actively worked in the system should not be allowed to talk about ethics. That's it, I am sorry for not giving all the details in the previous post, it looked obvious to me and if I sound ironical now, just learning to adapt :)

Bizzaro world is a society that lives by a code where Up is Down, Ugly is Beautiful, Truth is a Lie, Stupid is brilliant, and so on…

Hezbollah and its followers are trying to turn Lebanon into a Bizzaro World:

- Killers are victims of a conspiracy, but dead victims are guilty

- Democracy is when you take over the government by force of arms, but those who disagree with you peacefully are spies

- Armed criminal thugs with guns pointed at other Lebanese are neutral, but unarmed Lebanese who demand Justice in international courts are politicized

- An unstable man with history of psychological issues dying to be president is a beloved leader, but his antithesis, who stands for total independence from Iran and the Assad hoodlums is a traitor

- Killers ensure peace and stability, but justice brings about civil strife

- “Mladic is not a monster,” (said a clueless dimwit on this board as a hyperbole to defend Mladic), but the court is corrupt… this one is plain f-ing stupid!

Still speaking Mr Siniora ! It's time to go and congratulate the winers that are the new leaders of the country . That is called Democracy .

I know that in your country KSA , you dont practice such bad manners ! like democracy and power alternation .. But we are in Lebanon not in KSA or in Hariristan .

Get ready for your trial .

well said startrip!
sanioura was a good PM in my opinion, let s see now Mikati!
will he:
- give us electricity 24/24 like in every civilised country and stop the generator s mafia system?
- increase the salaries?
- stop the killing of the lebanese environment?
- stop the anrchic and monstruous buildings in Beirut and vote a true urbanization plan taking the citizens into account!!? (lots of green spaces, parks etc like every big civilized city does!)
- make every one in lebanon pay his electricity bill?
- bring water to houses in a normal way and stop the wasting of water in the streets?
- find solutions to public transportation? for example build at last a coastal tramway like hariri proposed ? but at the time the MPs refused because they would have lost big money interests!
- computerize all the public services ? lahoud said he would do that as a president but he did nothg! that allows corruption from the employees to hasten your file!!
- etc etc

let s see their big failure to come

Yeah a great friend, that's why they decided to kill him. Great friend indeed.

The whole world knows that you can't have a fairer court than the International Criminal Court in the Hague. I'm sure HA and their followers also knew that. Of course, now that they got caught, it becomes an "evil conspiracy" by the usual suspects that they blame everything that's wrong in their lives on.

mabboud: Public debt is one of the most complex problems to deal with and you are making it sound like a heck of a simple one. There is no such thing as "simple" in the world of economics and finance. Your are forgetting that public debt is absolutely necessary for a country coming out of war, and that debt is absolutely necessary as a mean to invest in a country's infrastructure. Interest rates are related to the country default probability rate and are decided by the investors (I happen to work in capital markets). The banks in Lebanon view the country's debt as a liability and not as an asset, because at the time of default (god forbids) it will trigger a chain of unpredictable events beyond any control.

If you are suggesting that the government stop swapping its debt and subsribing to new ones, i wonder how the army and public servants would have gotten their paychecks...

I agree with you that all Lebanese governmnents have done a terrible job at managing the debt and more

importantly at investing in "future's generation" such as in education.

Don't get me wrong: i am not saying that there is no corruption and stealing. All i am saying is that debt was supposed to help build an economy and generate growth. Our governments (all of them) have failed miserably (although we have seen impressive economic growth in the last few years). But let's not oversimplify things...

The biggest problem is to come if Lebanon becomes isolated and if sanctions start hitting us which is not impossible given the colour of the new government... the debt problem will become a tiny little issue... BTW this is probably Israel's dream.

Startrip, on the same note: this is from the book "From Beirut to Jerusalem"

"The distinction between words and deeds was often lost in Beirut. It was a display culture, a city of amusement-park mirrors, which made short people look tall, fat people look thin, and insignificant people look important....Life did not imitate art in Beirut; it was art"

Slain PM Hariri deserves justice. Lebanon is gangrened and the new so called majority doesn't have what it takes to fix our daily issues ( economy, electricity, getting rid of the illegal constructions around the airport as well as many other things such as safety for pedestrians, drivers and freedom to move around the country without being monitored/spied on by sick people) . True, KSA and the Western World has been supporting us in return of other favours. But the other side, understand Iran and Syria, only supplied the country with deadly weapons. Iran is nowadays a economically weak country, its people are starving and believe me, most Iranians aren't please with the fact that Ahmadinjad is spending immense amounts of money on weapons destined to terrorist groups, mainly Hezbollah. I'm not particularly of of Mr Saniora but his statements are somehow fair.

Anyone who thinks Lebanon wil be better off in the coming years with a Hezbollah dominated government has absolutely no grasp of reality.

Forget all foriegn assistance.

Forget good relations with post Assad Syria.

Obey orders from Khamieni.

Suffer at the hands of Israel in Iran's proxy war.