"المستقبل": كان باستطاعة حزب الله تجنب ادراج اسمه على لائحة الارهاب لو أبقى التزاماته مرتبطة بلبنان

so Bandoul, with all due respect, what you are asking is for half the population of Lebanon to shut up and put up with HA, their weapons, their status as above the law (yes i know you will tell me the people requested by the STL are requested by a zionist facade, fine, how about the attempted assassination of Harb? are the Lebanese judiciary also a zionist facade?) why? it is the choice of HA. to see that their weapons are a strain on the internal scene. HA did its job, and we all applauded it in 2000. but that does not give them a green light to use their weapons as they see fit, against the wishes of the Lebanese govt 13 years later. Syria is not Israel, they are not a resistance. they are militia who are strong arming us into accepting their reality.

it is the duty of everyone to stand up to them. nobody wishes for war, but if that is the only way to disarm all our political factions and force them to play the political game on a level playing field so be it. the ball is in HA's court.

You misunderstood me entirely arzak-ya-libnan. I am vehemently opposed to HA weapons and I do not subscribe to the Zionist conspiracy theories nor the politicization of the STL. While I am inclined to believe HA is responsible for assassinations and mayhem in general, I am helpless to prove any of it or to do anything about it. No one should shut-up, not at all. We should all speak as one voice against weapons outside the authority of the state. What I am suggesting is that we are not capable of disarming HA and thus we are trapped. We can lob insults and accusations at them all day long and it will not change a single thing. It just keeps emboldening them. That is all I am saying. The more we accuse them, the more our Shia brothers and sister take offense and our Sunni brothers and sisters get enraged. Participated in sowing the seeds of hatred and inflaming them into action is the wrong thing to do and will cost dearly not only them but all of us sharing hal watan.

Lastly ya azrak-ya-libnan, yes it is our duty to stand up to them but the only way to stand up to them is with our wits and smarts instead of our words and fists. If you know of a way to wage a successful military campaign which results in the disarmament of HA then please clue me in as I see absolutely no way to achieve it but I am willing to listen.

@the1, there are some who are confusing may change of tact and strategy as an indication I have joined M8. This is unfortunate as I abandoned M14 and did not join M8, instead I opted to join M Lebanon. Sometimes we have to step back, take an inventory and learn from our mistakes. HA is not my enemy, he is a Lebanese voice whose vision and agenda I disagree with and vehemently oppose. He has a gun, I don't. I can't attack him with words and accomplish nothing or I can accept my reality and take a different approach. I chose the latter form the sake of the watan.

Bandoul: i thank you for your even-tempered and rational answer. I have always said even in recent points that both sides of the spectrum. unlike FT who thinks that whoever is not m8 is m14 and therefore a traitor, i despise m14 a little less than i do m8. but they have sat at the negotiating table for 4 years before they stopped. we have tried to reason with M8, particularly HA. They came out and said it, our weapons are NOT up for negotiations, and whoever tries to touch them will have his hand cut off. ok, so tell me, where do we go from here? sit at the negotiation table and talk just for the sake of talking? while we change nothing? m14, contrary to the claims of FT did extend an arm to m8 by granting them the blocking third TWICE. how were they repaid? by having hariri's govt overthrown? how is not extending an arm?

it is true that no force is even close to HA in terms of weapons and organization. but 15 years of civil war have taught us that no one group can control Lebanon militarily. weapons will come, with the "friends" of both sides only happy to send weapons that will make our 15 year civil war look like a picnic. as i said, it is clearly obvious that negotiating will not get HA to hand in their weapons.. so now what? just sit on our behinds and accept the status quo?

i made it very clear that the ball is in HA's court, and it is their choice if they want to see war return to our country. if they care enough about this country as they actually claim, they would hand in their weapons to the army, just like all others did after the civil war. the way i see it we are heading nowhere but war. if HA agrees to hand in their weapons, and we provide the army with the cover to go into every neighborhood and disarm everyone including the Palestinians. then we are saved. if not, talk has been of no use.

one last note after re-reading, i respect that you are no m Lebanon.. but there is and will be no Lebanon as long as they and others have arms.

@arzak-ya-libnan, thanks for the civilized debate. I do not have the answers my friend. The only thing I know is doing the same thing day in and day out and expecting a different result is the definition of insanity ( I am not sure who I am quoting, but I am quoting someone obviously smarter than me). A repeat of the 75-76 civil war is not an option for me. My father was shot in front of my eyes because of his faith. I was asked to step down from the school bus to be shot on the wall because of my faith but was saved by the cleverness and kindness of a school teacher who had the courage and fortitude to stand between me and the masked gunman. I have many horror stories that I have no desire to relive. I guess I am a coward and proud to be so. If it is live oppressed or die then I choose to live oppressed until I figure out how to be free without violence. For the sake of full disclosure, I immigrated 30 years ago but I dream of retiring in Lebanon someday.

Bandoul, i am very sorry for what you went through during our civil war. It is well known that the Lebanese civil war was one of the most brutal ever fought. It is never easy to lose a father the way you did and i hope one day, when Lebanon will truly rise, that will give you closure and enable you to return to the country you love. but the issue, if you allow me to point out what i am trying to say, war is at our doorstep, if we want it or not, if we accept it or not. if not now, next month, if not next month, next year, if not next year 10 years from now, but i assure you as long as HA holds on to their weapons war WILL come again. is it not better to stand up now, and build the Lebanon we dream of, free of M8 or M14, free of weapons, free of living in constant fear, free of living in constant warfare and hate? if not for you or me for our children. if we dont stand up to what is fair and what is right eventually our children will. or their children.

"The only thing I know is doing the same thing day in and day out and expecting a different result is the definition of insanity"
i ask you, isnt this what we are doing by going to the negotiating table and not solving any of our major problems?
another wise man said: "i would rather die on my feet than live on my knees".
I reiterate that i do not believe in m14 as much as i dont believe in m8. i only "lean" towards them for their principles of the state, of no weapons outside its control. this problem has to be solved and will be one day, that may not be of our choosing, where our children will pay the price.
i pray and hope HA will wake up and realize where we are headed and spare us from it. if they do i will see them as truly patriotic, and deserved of my respect. but alas, deep down i know my prayers will not be answered.

@arzak-ya-libnan, I apologize, it appears from my post that I implied my father was killed. He was not, he survived his wound by the grace of God but he fled the country and didn't return for 5 years. Thank you for your civilized post.

second, the blocking 3rd is not a 7asané. M8 is entitled to it and more, because demographically they are 55% of lebanon. so the third is the minimum. this is not an 'extended hand' this is the minimum required.
go read the constitution will you. m14 were not legally required to give you squat. they could have forced a govt, put it up for vote in parliment and made it pass ghass bin 3ankon. now what would HA have done? a larger scale may 2008 for sure. so dont tell me it was anything but a 7asane. they were under no legal obligation to give anything.

so be it implies that it WILL happen, regardless if you, me or anyone else doesnt or does like it.
"our" politicians have sat on that damned table for 4 years with squat to show for it.. and you want us to keep sitting for what? to sit, to talk and have nothing change? HA said it themselves their weapons are not up for negotiations and the arm that tries to touch them will be cut off. so what are we going to discuss. i see it in a different light, only a war will force HA to hand in their weapons... a war that will destroy what little is left of lebanon. and in the end, just like our civil war, we would have fought for something that could have been avoided by simple humility and acceptance that the shia would not accept a full fledged sunni or christian resistance while they are unarmed. neither would the shia or the sunnis if the christians were. so lets not beat around the bush.

@people-power, I can only speak for myself but sharing your opinion helps clarify which school of thought is in the majority one way or another. I thoroughly enjoy debating or at least reading the posts of a few folks on here and it helps to see where my thinking lies in comparison to others whose opinion I respect. As to the rest who are busy verbally assaulting the other, they're just riffraff and par for the course. I encourage you to share your opinion.