UNTSO: International Investigation Computers are Still in Our Possession

uhu

of course they are. as once again hizb tries to forge another document. Saldy some on their followers are naive enough to believe all....

Hassoune, any pics of the lochness monster or of UFO's..

In fact maybe it was a UFO that killed hariri

Hanna, it seems that you don't read at all!!! the documents were no fraud, UN is just answering and giving the info of what happened to the computers. Now, this raises a very important question... why all material should go through Israel? where did the destruction of the HDs occurred, who removed the HD and when? Shall I trust UN to do good job... I don't think so, in 1996 after Cana was bombed deliberately by Israel (180 killed, it was during operation Grapes of wrath) , UN asked 4 times Israel to stop and they continued to bomb... what happened, no STI, no justice??? Stop being naive, Hezbollah might be guilty or not but your post is so Special (like the Tribunal) that I couldn't resist answering. Sorry for that.

For those who are technologically challenged (I.e.hizbies and aounis). In this day and age you can copy the information off of the 97 computers onto a chip not larger that your brains combined (1mm x 1mm). So drop this pretext as it is only for local consumption and to say the least totally stupid. If they ever did obtain the information it would be through one of your own.

The date of Sayyed Hassan's document is six month after the STL from moved Beirut to the Hague I doubt the STL officials stayed six month without their data.

maybe the UN prefers to move its material through the UN channels instead of the port or airport of beirut. It is maybe more secure.

Who controls these two entry points? !!!!

peace.... what do they want to secure since HDs were destroyed.. motherboards, screens, windows licenses??? c'mon... you can find better things to say, the team is not base on Israel and does not use Israeli phones I hope... maybe better also to have Israeli agents from the Mossad to work for them (this is just a joke, teasing you, Mossad agents are too dumb to do the job). By the way, did the passport that Israeli agents used in the assassination in Dubai had to go through Israel also. Reports also go to Israel before reaching UN offices in NY (peligrini said that not my invention)..... Latest rumors are that the STL will help frame the idiots of the Mossad that conducted the killing in Dubai, in fact they were Hezbollah agents disguised in stupid Mossad agents camouflaged in stupid westerners... Mehlis dd all that on his excel sheet, cross checking the 4 million lebanese files with 600 Million EU Ausi, etc. files. I am trying to be as funny as you are. peace on all of us.

so mabboud, if they destroyed everything, what is the hezbi fuss about this? see all the so-called proofs from the hezb are just newspaper junk not worth a tribunal!
for ex: if the investigation led to a terrorist act, won t they hire specialists of terrorism to help the investigation? who are the experts in that field?

let s wait for the real proofs that will be shown during the trial! then we can judge this tribunal about the worthiness of their evidence! and discuss! before that it is just bla bla and tearoom talk!

has anyone said that the DSK trial was politicized? no, but like this one lots of leaks through the press! every trial in the world has leaks before the trial! so are they all politicized?

those who say the STL is politicized, are the ones who politicize it by saying that!

peace, I'll be brief then you need to do an effort and search the web to understand. Special tribunals are by definition specials and politicized. DSK has a bunch of detectives that can investigate and build a strong defense, download the Special rules & procedures from the STL website and you will understand how limited it is. Do u seriously believe that the STL was not setup to pit pressure on Syria initially? in such case, why no tribunal for Benazir Bhutto or why no Special tribunal for Allende. International Laws cover war crime, terrorism and crime against humanity.... but a small country like Lebanon has a Special Tribunal but not Pakistan with Nuclear power and you seriously think it has nothing to do with politics. Do u think that Lebanese people today are more focused on the STL than price of food... only Hillary is focused more on the STL than US economy & more concerned 4 Hariri than 4 millions who died in Iraq, Afghanistan & elsewhere under USrael machine guns: Justice!!

mabboud, i do not have the pretention to be assertive about this tribunal because you can find everything and its contrary to prove your point depending on which side you are in.
so, i m not telling anyone here that this STL is 100% impartial or partial. I m just waiting for the results of the investigation, the evidence shown in court to give an opinion.

i think that all this bullshit around the tribunal is childish talks because no one knows what will be produced at the tribunal!

you should be on the contrary happy that lebanon has a tribunal to judge those who killed innocent lebanese, i m not talking about hariri, but of those who died and were just poor citizens!
lebanon has suffered from murders long enough and never the culprits were found or judge!
i think it is a strong message sent to terrorists or terrorists states acting in lebanon to say that they will now have to assume their killings.
so far no one has been accused by the STL so let s wait and see!

and as far as i know innocent people are never afraid of justice because they know they can prove it. guilty people on the contrary always try to run away from it!

this tribunal allows the indicted to produce all evidence of their innocence. And don t tell me that in front of the international community their evidence will be thrown away! even if politicized!

so i know that someone who has thing to hide prefer not to show in a tribunal...

Peace... I agree with you that lot's of bullshit. I don't judge the STL on its outcome but on its fundamentals, it's "Special" and I am not happy, it doesn't cover poor people who were killed, it is not here to stay and does not help people being killed all over the world and recently in south Lebanon by Israelis shooting at young people. I am against "Special" Justice and with Justice for all. Now, history has proven than Special justice (e.g. Nuremberg, ICYT, Iraq) bring to trial and judge, in-front of the whole world and defense can do little. I suggest you look at Katyn and Racik massacres and how the wrong people paid the price, you are either too naive or didn't read enough about previous international courts manipulations. Now, add to that Hezbollah who is seen all over the world as a terrorist organization due to USrael propaganda, they are altready guilty, prior to any proof being presented so who care what their defense will be. Do you know how Milosevic defended himself?

do u know if he was proved guilty of anything. if you read french, read the following and then tell me if u knew the truth despite best advocates being present: http://www.michelcollon.info/Kosovo-les-discours-et-la-realite.html?lang=fr
http://www.michelcollon.info/Guerre-s-ce-qu-on-aurait-pu-savoir.html
http://www.michelcollon.info/Les-15-mensonges-de-Jamie-Shea-et.html
http://www.michelcollon.info/Le-TPI-organe-de-l-039-Otan-et-de.html (it will help understand how the "special" international justice works; another article is http://www.michelcollon.info/La-corruption-de-la-Justice.html and http://www.michelcollon.info/Ce-que-cache-le-TPI-pour-l-039-ex.html)
http://www.michelcollon.info/Comparaison-des-034-bons-massacres.html
http://www.michelcollon.info/Sur-la-construction-de-quelques.html
http://www.michelcollon.info/Kosovo-Milosevic-ne-refusait-pas.html
http://www.michelcollon.info/Reponse-de-Michel-Collon-Je-vous.html

peace.. u said something very funny, STL is a message that terrorist can't achieve killings, where, in Iraq, Iran, Pakistan, where... Lebanon and for how much time assuming u r correct which u r not. Do u seriously think that the Hezb, on the terrorist list, fighting Israel is afraid by the STL?? Hezb is already on the list of killers in many cities like Qaeda (or any idiot who pretend he is Qaeda), did it stop killing people. Be serious, the only way to solve this is to have a real International Justice, the ICC is not great but Lebanon was a good opportunity to improve it. By the way, STL risks to end-up killing more people than save people like ICTY did... Hezb is accused also (some think it's manipulation) of a big Argentina bombing on Jewish community, one of the 4 is already listed on interpole... do u think that STL will solve this thing?? It is only a tool to remove credibility to Hezb and put pressure on Syria no matter if they r the killers or not. It's as simple as that.

mabboud, other than loony left editorials and spins in your universe, no, ok go hug your teddy bear touch yourself and read the angry Arab blog.

but hezb is terrorist behind it s clean message of resistance only to fool lebanese people... don t you see the terror it shows in lebanon? don t remember that aoun used to repeat it all the time?
this party cannot be called a political party because of its arsenal

in which country do you have such an organization backed and financed by foreign countries? in another country they would be called subversive and outlaw and judge for not respecting the laws of the state... why in lebanon is it different? because of the threats they make to anyone that is against it!

so, if the hezb is innocent, and claims to have evidence they should produce it, at least to pretend in front of the world that they comply to international laws! refusing to do so makes the people have doubts and reinforce the terrorist image the world has on it!

why should the hezb fight israel! that is the role of the state not a party!

peace.. u could be the proof that what u say doesn't make sense. On one hand u condemn the Hezb and have a ready full judgment compatible with the one of Cassese and westerners in General vis a vis of the "entity" Hezb. and refuse to listen to any possible argument and on the other hand you say that it should be easy for them to prove that they are innocent. Doing what for instance since any thing they could present will be met with skepticism to say the least (your own skepticism, they bring proof that 97 PCs went to Israel, we first bring expert to say it's falsification and then after 5 days we say it's true but this is part of the story, we destroyed the HDs no worry it's common and agreed procedure. And this is proof?? I am not saying that UN is lying or that the Hezb didn't kill, I just have reasonable doubt you had probably no doubt that the 4 Generals killed Hariri few years ago... were they given the possibility to defend themselves? 4 the Hezb it's gonna be much worse!!!

anyway , let the hezb do what they want and let s see if it is really for the sake of lebanon and that they will bring peace and democracy to citizens!

and for the STL wait and see!

you can write thousands of pages on injustice in the world, and about criminals that never were trailed, like israel for example. but let s not accuse this tribunal before it hasn t accused and sentenced any one yet!

just like our new gvt: people say to wait and see and judge them on their acts, knowing that many lebanese think it s working for syria and iran like many think the stl works for the usa and israel,,
so why should the reaction be different for the stl?

it s the same intellectual way of thinking!!!

Now, what the hezb is and its arms, the legitimacy of its fight are debatable and is not the issue at stake when we talk about STL, of course, STL could be used to fight the Hezb for what it is but doesn't make the latter guilty for the killings. You are paving the way in explaining, and I have to say better than me, the politicization of the STL. We talk about it we come back to what the Hezb is!!! I don't care about what the Hezb is, u have a problem with what the Hezb is fight it but don't talk about justice, innocent people and all that blabla. I don't know what was in the computers & I don't know what was the amount of data, how it was structured and protected but in case it included millions of CDRs, it certainly can't hold in a USB and John Holmes is no Sherlock.

I say that the possibility of Hariri being killed by Syria because he was financing the Muslim Brotherhood is more likely than the Hezb who Hariri protected on the international scene, I say that if the Hezb is so powerful today part is to blame on Hariri, not only on Syria only... those are my opinions, they have nothing to do with the integrity of the STL, for me STL has no integrity by definition, Hezb, Syria, Iran or Bin Laden being accused why not Khadafi... such tribunals never accuse or investigate the powerful nations. People want to use the STL to target Hezbollah, no problem but don't talk to me about proof, justice and nice principles. They were no such principles in the ICTY, not in Rwanda and their aren't such principles for Fallujah, Gaza, Afghanistan, Libya, etc. Hezbollah doesn't have more proof than the STL, the STL has the power to act the Hezb will work on discrediting the STL, they are not doing the best job though; STL is doing a better job at discrediting itself.

Ok, I worked in IT for over 12 years of my life and most of it spent as a Network and Security engineer in govermental entities in the US. I'd like to make a few things clear about some simple basis of IT security when it comes to a professional body such as UNIIC.

For simple basic security and data integrity all valuable documents are never stored on the PCs themselves but rather on backend servers with measures in place for safekeeping auditing security and backup.

Laptops usually will have a cached copy of certain files the user uses constantly and is synchronized when possible,and usually encrypted and very difficult to crack. Laptops are always considered as a dangerous element on the network and treated as such.

When systems are being recycled to another department before we did so we had a giant magnet that used to literally trash the hard disk and all it's content before sending it to a professional data waste company. For some systems we even used to drill holes in them.

knowing what the hezb does or did, the indictement didnt surprise me to tell you the truth...

concerning the "proofs" the hezb produced what proof is that? they just gave the proofs on tv and never said they would handle it to the tribunal!! last year the hezb also said they had solid proofs against israel! why didn t they give it to the tribunal?
all i see on the part of the hezb is talk! hezbollah is a master in speeches, in propaganda, in making people believe in them. but when you scratch the varnish the reality is different!

62 countries work for the stl, investigators from all the world came to lebanon, don t tell that none of them could raise his voice to say that the evidence is fake, that they forged everything!

hezb claimed that they had the best intelligence against israel, how come they never knew hariri was going to get killed by the mossad? how come they saw nothg? the syrians ruled the country at the time, they didn t see anything too?

You think that the outcome is important whereas what is important is the way things were brought. We have a Syro-Irani government, will it do better or worse than a US-Saudi government (I am taking your way of thinking), what will it do for its people and country, who will be better who will be worse... I say it will probably be kif-kif which brings us back to the square 1, the STL is just a political tool and who ever is convinced that his opinion is not being manipulated and that it's not only a power struggle should take the time to think and see if there is one place on earth were justice is served by politicians and the big nations, one place... why Lebanon should be an exception. The only way out is dialogue; STL will only worsen things, already, people avoid dialog and focus on STL and when they say Justice they think 1559... everything is about 1559 and power. And please no more arguments on let's see what STL will show us, what it will publish next, wait for next leaks!!

don t forget mabboud we still don t know if syrians will be indicted too. so that s why i m waiting to tell you my opinion on the stl.

but lots of facts point to the syrian regime don t you think? they are accused of killing two presidents, of killing many other people. the operation way also seems to be the one used in many cases in lebanon by the syrians.
big connections link the hezb to syria, don t forget that too!

so if both were accused it would seem plausible. esp that hariri said no to the syrians a few months before his killing...

peace, the Hezb can't know everything and stop any killing, All US secret services were on alert before September 11 yet it happened, the pentagon for go sake, the most protected bldg in the world was hot by a plane!!! and you can't think that the lousy Syrian moukhabarat and the Hezb who had no presence in the area where Hariri was killed, you can't think for a sec that it is possible that they couldn't know about a Mossad killing (for instance)!!! You are stronger in propaganda than HN. Israel killed many Hezbollah operatives and Moughnieh was killed, if they were aware at the Hezb of all those bombings and had proof, how come they happened?? Concerning the ton of investigators coming and not noticing that proof is not good is like saying there is no need for a tribunal or that we never jail innocent people.... again, look at history in previous tribunals and wait 10 years u will probably start having voices for STL (might b wrong but history based probability is high that I'm not)

you re right! let s see what comes next!

anyway, to conclude, politicians in lebanon are not politicians, what ever side!

they all think lebanon is a commercial enterprise in which they will make money, all of them! they only think to keep the business in the family. they go to the highest bidder and then some of them change radically their policy! (aoun joumblatt etc)
i have no illusions on anyone of them, they won t do anythg for me nor to the country (M8 or M14!) , just the minimum to avoid revolutions!
they are professional liars from which westerners should sometimes take lessons!
but, i prefer lebanon to be an ally of democracies with all their flaws than ally with dictators! that s all!

it's late and I'm going to bed, I don't want to go into the details and al w il of Hassan said and Mehlis said and Spiegel said, it's too long and not even the tip of the Iceberg... geopolitics is much more complex, the role of the STL is to serve the interests of USrael and their stooges and the role of Nassralah is to discredit the STL and both are in a no-rule game using media, manipulations and propaganda. The Hezb is as usual trying to resist, has much less arms, STL can use nukes I just hope that we will have no casualties because we will be those casualties. That said, I think that the Hezb has been more consistent in its defense and to take the analogy of war, STL camp lost the Mehlis fight, the 4 generals, Israeli network of spies (Russia helped by giving material after 2006), Lebanon Gov support, etc. What maters are facts and results not what is written in papers. In 2006 HN propaganda was better than USrael and generals were sacked @ IDF & prisoners came-back to Lebanon.

peace.. I just noticed what u said about preferring to be with democracies rather than with dictators... It is a very important thing to analyse, at first everyone will say that thinking that being with a democracy is like living in one and the same applies for dictatorships... this is very wrong. who killed the most people on earth in the last 10 years, US, NATO, Iran, North Corea, Russi, Israel (try to order this) who kills outside of his countries the most and treats its citizens as being superior to the rest of the world, democracies like US or France who can kill millions for a few to build an empire or Iran, Syria, etc. I am of course for democracy but US ain't my friend, neither Israel nor Iran or Saudi Arabia but simply put, US is very dangerous for a country when it starts talking about it and manipulating its destiny and its clear to know why they love the STL tool. By the way, I share Aristote views of democracies no politicians (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sortition)